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AWE64 PCI

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First post, by swaaye

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Anyone have one or at least used one?

Reply 2 of 47, by swaaye

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oh yeah they exist. I think they may have been a Dell exclusive though because they are called the AWE64D. They even have a special motherboard connection called SBLink to offer DOS compatibility. This is found on some 440BX mobos.

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Reply 3 of 47, by Aideka

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Quote from wikipedia:

A fourth version that arrived later was designed around the PCI bus. It offers the features of the original ISA AWE64, but it has the PCI interface and is built around an even more integrated ASIC. This made the board even more compact, and thus cheaper to build. Unfortunately, during this card's time, the issue of compatibility with older legacy DOS applications accessing PCI audio cards had not been ideally addressed. Creative created a motherboard port called the "SB-Link" that assisted the PCI bus in working with software that looked for the legacy I/O resources of ISA sound cards. Without this motherboard port, the card was incompatible with DOS software.

AWE64 PCI was later followed by the AWE64D, which was a variant of the PCI AWE64 that was developed for OEMs. It again offered the same feature support as other AWE64 cards, including the DOS support issues. The AWE64D was not quite compatible with AWE64 PCI drivers, however, and had to use separate driver packages.

I think I had one of those sometime, but back then could never get it working because I had no internet connection and couldn´t get the drivers for it... That SB-Link stuff sounds interesting tho, has anyone ever tried it?

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Reply 4 of 47, by Mau1wurf1977

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But but but BX440 boards have ISA slots...

Anyway, I also wondered about that SB link feature and how reliable it was.

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Reply 5 of 47, by DBob

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Anyone have one or at least used one?

Yep, I have...but I borrowed it for sound card tests, not mine 😉
Not tested yet though, but I assume that it will sound exactly same as the other AWE cards. SNR and other quality parameters will be much better hopefully.

Reply 6 of 47, by Aideka

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Seems like some motherboards with Intel 810 chipset also had those SB-Link connectors, that might be a good thing since I don´t think I have seen isa slots on those mainboards...

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Reply 7 of 47, by swaaye

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Depending on how well that SBLink works this could be the most DOS compatible PCI sound card.

I have to wonder why they would move to the Ensoniq AudioPCI chip over these. Maybe it was simply because AudioPCI boards are very likely cheaper since the chip is so simple.

Reply 9 of 47, by DBob

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Is it better than an Ensoniq Audio PCI or SB Live!?

Don't think so. The Ensoniq based SB128 was a very good card, from every perspective. SB Live?...that's an another story...
Have to check in the future...

Reply 10 of 47, by swaaye

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AudioPCI does everything in software. It's a card with a very basic audio codec and a software package that does 90% of the functions. Think Realtek here. This software was designed to run well on a Pentium MMX so it's not exactly very feature packed. The MIDI synth in particular is quite limited in quality and features. AWE's E-Mu synth is far superior assuming you can load some decent soundfonts into it.

Both Live and AudioPCI (SBPCI64/128) use a nasty type of ISA resource emulation for DOS support. This is how all PCI sound cards other than this AWE64 get DOS support. I get the impression that SBLink allows AWE64 PCI to behave like an ISA card which means it should have far better DOS compatibility than any other PCI sound card.

Unfortunately the AWE64 PCI is rare because it was quickly replaced by Live! and the cheap AudioPCI-based cards that showed up when Creative bought Ensoniq.

Reply 13 of 47, by DBob

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AudioPCI does everything in software.

As every other PCI card, without BIOS. When I got my first AudioPCI, I've got a AMD K5-100, and I had no issue with software / performance. And as far as I remember, it worked perfectly from native DOS.

he MIDI synth in particular is quite limited in quality and features.

Hmm. Maybe we aren't talking about the same card? The features very limited, yes. Only the soundbank changeable. But that's enough, because with the 8MB soundbank its not limited in quality, but far better than most of General MIDI cards. 😖

Reply 14 of 47, by swaaye

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We've had many MIDI card discussions here and the AudioPCI has been thoroughly discussed. 😀 While it isn't bad and the 8MB patch set has good instrument samples, the ECW format is very limiting. As a result even the 8MB patch set is lower quality than the 2MB set on Ensoniq's own Soundscape cards.

You can hear a lot of sound card comparisons in our recordings archive (see my signature or the sticky thread).

For more info on AudioPCI's MIDI shortcomings, look at this page
http://www.johnnengelmann.com/technology/ecw/index.php

All of the PCI cards that use the ISA resource emulation have spotty DOS game support. This includes Aureal Vortex, SBLive (uses AudioPCI driver), AudioPCI, Philips/VLSI Thunderbird, ESS Maestro, etc. The AudioPCI even requires EMM386 be loaded which immediately precludes it from being ideal. Only this AWE64 PCI has a direct hardware connection that allows a pure hardware ISA resource connection.

Additionally, the AudioPCI's software FM synthesis may be the worst out there. Just ask forumgoer Ace what he thinks. 😉 The AWE64 PCI should have the Creative FM synth integrated which is very similar to real OPL3.

Reply 15 of 47, by gerwin

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swaaye wrote:

Only this AWE64 PCI has a direct hardware connection that allows a pure hardware ISA resource connection.

Many PCI soundcards based on the Yamaha YMF724 DS-XG chipset have the SB-Link header too, as well as ESS-Solo PCI cards. They are not rare, I have them both. I used a SB-Link cable with the YMF724 when I had it installed a while ago.
Proof:
PC/PCI or SB-LINK cable. How to make?

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 16 of 47, by keropi

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so, does the SB-Link work? does the system behave like it has an ISA card?

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Reply 17 of 47, by gerwin

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The YMF724 emulates SB-Pro, so yes. But there will still be a few games that refuse to work with it (But then some don't even like the ISA SB16). I don't remember if anything stays resident after running the initializer program to setup the SB-Link.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 18 of 47, by Mau1wurf1977

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PCI cards work quite well with newer DOS games. DOOM, Descent, Raptor and later. At that stage the sound drivers that games used, are very robust, and work with pretty much any clone cards.

It's really the very old games that give grief. E.g. games such as Space Quest 4 or Fate of Atlantis (CD version).

So for new games, PCI is a real alternative, especially considering the superior signal quality.

And hail to the AudioPCI 🤣 I love that card. It must be the best "bang for buck" card out there. Sure other cards sound better, but they also cost a lot more. AudioPCI cards are cheap and plenty full and Doom, Descent or Raptor sound quite good with it.

Best is the signal quality. No hiss, no pop, just a really good quality signal. Especially useful for headphones!

IMO these cards are best suited for a high performance SVGA DOS system. E.g. a P3 1.4 GHz AGP board with no ISA slots. What a shame these cards don't work in modern PCs though.

I wrote a little guide on these cards a while ago: Ensoniq / Creative AudioPCI

Complete with Ensoniq and Creative driver set and sample recordings.

Reply 19 of 47, by swaaye

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I don't see a reason to use a AudioPCI over a Live!. They use the same DOS driver, except the Live version has SB16 support. I think FM might be better too (Ace investigated this). In Windows a Live! is way more interesting than AudioPCI as well. There are roughly a googolplex of Live cards in the wild too.

But this thread isn't about the virtues of the supposed ease of Ensoniq DOS support (which is not perfect by any measure).

gerwin wrote:

Many PCI soundcards based on the Yamaha YMF724 DS-XG chipset have the SB-Link header too, as well as ESS-Solo PCI cards.

I didn't know that. Cool. The problem with SBLink is that none of these cards seem to get sold with the cable.

I wonder if ESS Solo 1 integrated chips are wired up for SBLink. I have a ASUS P5A with one onboard.