Part of me just wants my old Sound Blaster Pro back and to have one of those Roland MPU-401AT cards (i think it's called) which is just a ISA card with a waveblaster header!

I find it interesting that the Pro Audio Spectrum is Sound Blaster compatible and the Pro Audio Spectrum 16 is Sound Blaster Pro compatible.

The MPU-401AT card is a card that you should never let go of if you own one. While you won't get the extra features of the official MPU-401 interface, you will get everything any DOS game expects for an Roland SCC-1 card or normal/intelligent or UART/dumb midi interfaces. You can use it to connect to any external midi devices.

I would think that an AWE64 Gold would not have an issue with poor sound quality. But I would also charge that its OPL3 emulation is probably no better than any of the cards reviewed in the link I posted previously. In my opinion, if there isn't a chip on the card that is branded "Yamaha YMF-262", then you shouldn't bother with its OPL3 capabilities. No AWE32 or AWE64 has it (some SB32s do, some of the SB16s don't.) Ditto for the OPL2, but back then most companies had no difficulties using one or two true Yamaha 3812 OPL2 chips.

However, if the AWEs have sound issues, I have also heard worse reports about the Sound Blaster 16s.

Great Hierophant wrote:

I find it interesting that the Pro Audio Spectrum is Sound Blaster compatible and the Pro Audio Spectrum 16 is Sound Blaster Pro compatible.

The PAS16 is SB2.0 compatible, not SBPro.

Great Hierophant wrote:

However, if the AWEs have sound issues, I have also heard worse reports about the Sound Blaster 16s.

Well, AWE is basically a SB16 with extra stuff tacked on. They are really not much different. I haven't used the AWE64 for much, because it has the same limitations as an AWE32/SB32 (horrid difficulties getting soundfont/daughtercard wavetable to work sometimes). But SB16 thru AWE32 definitely have problems with their output quality.

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm

I have one them Yamaha OPL-SAx isa sound cards and it was just a great card. It emulated soundblaster and adlib cards. and it worked perfectly under dos.

Arguing which Sound Blaster card does not have sound problems is a bit silly.

All Sound Blaster cards have sound problems. If some are pretty much noise free there is always the below average quality of the output.

I think it is too bad Creative took the place of standard during that time.
Take a Gravis card and compare the output to a SB. Forget about noise, hear how the frequencies are all nice and separated on the GUS. As if someone with good knowledge of EQ lifted up the music.
Compare the sound of a SB (any SB) and it will sound like a muddled mess.

That's true. But GUS cards were quite expensive for the common of mortals then.

That's true. But GUS cards were quite expensive for the common of mortals then.

I believe some of the higher end Sound Blasters were even more expensive. While the GUS hovered around $220, the SB16 started at somewhere around $250.

The opposite was true about GUS prices; they were cheaper than Creative.

A definitive answer can be found on this very forum.

http://home.new.rr.com/swaaye/0144.png

and

http://www.harpgallery.com/assets/images/swaaye/0082.png
http://www.harpgallery.com/assets/images/swaaye/0083.png

Source: Sound cards - from best to worst (Check out swaaye's post about midway)
Sound cards - from best to worst

Yep, Creative sure filled their pockets.

I have updated my views on the essential sound cards and present to you as efficient a list as I can for your perusal:

MIF-IPC (+ MPU-401)

This is not a "sound card" per se because it really only transmits midi signals. However, it can connect to a vast array of midi modules, and that makes it valuable. While the interface cards designed for it limit you to using only one with a computer, you can also use it in non-PCs and with multiple PCs if each has an interface card inside it. It can connect to an MT-32 or a CM-32L, fully supporting games that use those modules or the Roland LAPC-I sound card. It can also connect to an CM-300 or an SC-55ST at the same time (2xmidi out), eliminating any need for the Roland SCC-1, SCB-55 or SCP-55 sound cards. Connect it to a Yamaha FB-01 and your need for an IBM Music Feature Adapter (at least for Sierra games, the only games that ever supported it) ceases. On the same lines, connect it to a Yamaha MU-10XG and you can sell your DB-50XG, PCC-10XG and SW60XG.

Game Blaster

While you can upgrade a Sound Blaster to support the chips this card uses for sound, some games may require the Game Blaster card to work. It has a custom IC that the Sound Blasters do not. I don't know whether any game requires it, but Creative's demo software might. Also, some games default to Adlib and can detect the Adlib chip on the Sound Blaster.

Sound Blaster Pro 1.0

The Sound Blaster Pro 1.0 is fully and 100% downwards compatible with the Sound Blaster 1.0/1.5 and 2.0. The Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 is not as compatible only for the simple fact that games supported the dual-OPL2 arrangement in the Pro 1.0. The OPL3 arrangement of the Pro 2.0 is programmed differently to support stereo FM sound. Games supported the dual OPL2 setup for additional voices and stereo music. Gameport should be OK with slower machines.

Sound Blaster 16 CT-1740

If you need 16-bit digital output, this is your best bet. Stick with this model and its companions the CT-1750 and CT-1770, as they are only real 16s with real OPL3 chips. Later 16's usually boast of Creative's QMS synthesis or the inferior Vibra chipset. This card is necessary if the game is using 16-bit digital samples. Also comes with a waveblaster header for a daughtercard. Good as a UART midi interface with a V4.05DSP.

Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold

If you value the AWE wavetable synthesis, then this card is for you. It uses Creative's Quadangular Synthesis, a supposedly superior method to Yamaha's FM Synthesis. It has SPDIF support for everything. It contains 4MB of RAM, more than enough for any game. Gold plated RCA outputs and the best signal to noise ratio. You lose the waveblaster header, but with a DSP of 4.13 or higher, it is worth it. Not a full length card, unlike the AWE32s.

Gravis Ultrasound Ace

If you need an Ultrasound for games, why not use an Ace? It contains all the playback capabilities of the Classic and the MAX. It does not record in 16-bit, but you aren't using this computer for recording. May be a bit tricky to upgrade to 1MB. A great support module to the Sound Blaster and it doesn't take up a full-length slot.

Since the ACE has been brought up, I'd like to point out that this is the only card in the GUS line that has a jumper to disable looking at 388h area of memory... aka the Adlib area.

Compatibility with games that use Adlib sound in a machine that uses both a GUS and a SB is something I spent a lot of time investigating. I own almost all the variants of the GUS (except the GUS Extreme) as well as a lot of versions of Sound Blaster, so I've had the means to carry out lots of experiments.

Anyway, I've found that certain games that use Adlib sound often do not function properly with both a GUS and a SB in the same machine. The exception to this being the GUS ACE with the jumper for adlib sound set to disabled.

I've tried various means of fixing it including disabling Adlib emulation with MegeEM, and attempting to turning off the Adlib functionality of the SB with CTCM (since I usually use a AWE64 gold, which is plug and play).

I've even tried contacting Creative and asked if there's some hidden way to disable or change the Adlib address on ANY of their cards. Um... they didn't seem to know.

So I'm wondering, since there is so much expertise in the room, if anyone's gotten any other model of Ultrasound to work side-by-side with a Sound Blaster and still hear all the familiar Adlib sound from games. Skyroads and Tubular Worlds are my two favorite canary games for this test.

Thought I'd put that out there, since I didn't see any mention of the GUS ACE's "Disable Adlib" jumper, which is my favorite feature of their entire line. 😀

Oh, and here's something kinda neat... a little downhome hacking solution to...

Upgrading a GUS ACE to 1mb!

It's actually pretty easy. After searching everywhere for vintage memory chips that matched the first one, in vain I might add... I simply took an exacto knife to an old graphics card that had a row of similar looking memory chips.

Low and behold! Worked great.

Just find an unwanted card with as-identical-as-you-can-find memory on it (that you are reasonably sure is 512 kb), chop one off. If you bend back the pins as precisely as you can, it will fit nicely into the GUS ACE's empty upgrade socket. The GUS ACE has a socket that doesn't require full-length pins on the chips (the socket hugs the rim of the chip), so you can use a chip that's been hacked off another card.

Amazingly, the GUS diagnostic utility detected the card as 1mb and all tests passed, not a single glitch after 2 years of use either. I've done this with two cards, and I thought I'd pass on a successful tip. 😎

Maximum Demoscene Compatibility!

Hello!

I have them both - a Gravis Ultrasound Classic and the ACE. And every time I build up a new "retro-computer" I try to use one of them to finaly hear this great mod-sound in one of my favourite games - Star Control 2 - and every time I fail. The game does not start, the pc freezes, no matter if another soundcard is installed or not, no matter if I use the "force ultrasound command" (/s:gravis) or not. Also this Adlib-jumper on the ACE seems to have no effect.
I tried it with a Pentium 200 machine (VX-Chipset), on a ECS P6BAt-A+ with a 500 Celeron, and a Via C3 (onboard sound of course deactivated), on a GA-6BXC Slot 1 Board - always the same! Any suggestions?
And - yes, I know there is a wonderfull remake out there, and yes - I know, its easy to play the game within dosbox, the Ultrasound emulation on. But that's not what I'm interested in...

Besides: The soundcardlist does not mention the EWS64XL Isa-soundcard by the german company terratec. This card worked a long time side-by-side with an AWE32 and an Ultrasound ACE in my retro-gaming machine - until I noticed that you can do nearly all the things the AWE32 can do with the EWS alone!
Signal-to noise ratio is far better, soundblaster pro compability is great, and also the old adlib standard is available (and not noisy as it used to be).
The EWS has a build in "Dream" synthesizer, wich is GS/GM compatible. Sounds great in Master of Orion 1! And for even greater compability you can connect the card to a front-panel-box wich contains a waveblaster-connector (and two Midi-In/Out-connectors) - and use a DB50XG as well!
It can be a little bit stressy to install the card, but when it runs it runs great! (even better than the AWE64: http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm)

Since the ACE has been brought up, I'd like to point out that this is the only card in the GUS line that has a jumper to disable […]
Show full quote

Since the ACE has been brought up, I'd like to point out that this is the only card in the GUS line that has a jumper to disable looking at 388h area of memory... aka the Adlib area.

Compatibility with games that use Adlib sound in a machine that uses both a GUS and a SB is something I spent a lot of time investigating. I own almost all the variants of the GUS (except the GUS Extreme) as well as a lot of versions of Sound Blaster, so I've had the means to carry out lots of experiments.

Anyway, I've found that certain games that use Adlib sound often do not function properly with both a GUS and a SB in the same machine. The exception to this being the GUS ACE with the jumper for adlib sound set to disabled.

I've tried various means of fixing it including disabling Adlib emulation with MegeEM, and attempting to turning off the Adlib functionality of the SB with CTCM (since I usually use a AWE64 gold, which is plug and play).

I've even tried contacting Creative and asked if there's some hidden way to disable or change the Adlib address on ANY of their cards. Um... they didn't seem to know.

So I'm wondering, since there is so much expertise in the room, if anyone's gotten any other model of Ultrasound to work side-by-side with a Sound Blaster and still hear all the familiar Adlib sound from games. Skyroads and Tubular Worlds are my two favorite canary games for this test.

Thought I'd put that out there, since I didn't see any mention of the GUS ACE's "Disable Adlib" jumper, which is my favorite feature of their entire line.

I'm glad I picked the ACE then, I didn't even know about the Adlib disable jumper until I looked at the picture of the unit I am to receive. This is another good reason to choose the ACE above all other Ultrasounds, especially for gaming.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to disable the Adlib functionality of a Sound Blaster card. For some of the early models, you can probably do so by removing the socketed OPL2 YM-3812 chip from the card, assuming it is socketed. To do so on a later board with the surfaced-mounted OPL3 chip requires you to remove the whole chip by cutting or desoldering the pins. Even later boards (post 1st gen 16's) have the Adlib functionality integrated into other components and it cannot be disabled.

Adlib's card was hardwired to use ports 388h &389h and nothing else, so Creative had to duplicate this if the Sound Blaster was going to be truly Adlib compatible.

Riboflavin wrote:

Since the ACE has been brought up, I'd like to point out that this is the only card in the GUS line that has a jumper to disable […]
Show full quote

Since the ACE has been brought up, I'd like to point out that this is the only card in the GUS line that has a jumper to disable looking at 388h area of memory... aka the Adlib area.

Compatibility with games that use Adlib sound in a machine that uses both a GUS and a SB is something I spent a lot of time investigating. I own almost all the variants of the GUS (except the GUS Extreme) as well as a lot of versions of Sound Blaster, so I've had the means to carry out lots of experiments.

Anyway, I've found that certain games that use Adlib sound often do not function properly with both a GUS and a SB in the same machine. The exception to this being the GUS ACE with the jumper for adlib sound set to disabled.

I've tried various means of fixing it including disabling Adlib emulation with MegeEM, and attempting to turning off the Adlib functionality of the SB with CTCM (since I usually use a AWE64 gold, which is plug and play).

I've even tried contacting Creative and asked if there's some hidden way to disable or change the Adlib address on ANY of their cards. Um... they didn't seem to know.

So I'm wondering, since there is so much expertise in the room, if anyone's gotten any other model of Ultrasound to work side-by-side with a Sound Blaster and still hear all the familiar Adlib sound from games. Skyroads and Tubular Worlds are my two favorite canary games for this test.

Thought I'd put that out there, since I didn't see any mention of the GUS ACE's "Disable Adlib" jumper, which is my favorite feature of their entire line. :happy:

I have both a GUS Max and a SB16 (MCD) in my system (aswell as a LAPC-I and a Terratec Gold (ESS chipset) with DB60XG).

(Adlib) sound does work with this configuration. The two games you mentioned are no exception. Since you are a scener "Realtime" from Impact Studios also comes to mind.

So maybe you could explain the "often do not function properly" and "still hear all the familiar Adlib sound" part.

Does the first one allude to system instabilities or simply sound problems?

Does the second mean Adlib sound sounds different when both cards are installed in a system? Or does it refer to no sounds at all in such a configuration?

Hierophant:

I seriously doubt removing the OPL chip will also remove the allocation of memory addresses. There are other chips to arrange such things.

The reason the ACE has this jumper is because it wasn't made to be used standalone. From the very beginning it was made as a companion to the SB.

I seriously doubt removing the OPL chip will also remove the allocation of memory addresses. There are other chips to arrange such things.

The reason the ACE has this jumper is because it wasn't made to be used standalone. From the very beginning it was made as a companion to the SB.

"from the very beginning it..." By "it" I assume you mean the ACE, not the whole Gravis Ultrasound product line, which tried to compete with the Sound Blaster, unsuccessfully.

If you remove the OPL2 chip, it should be as though the slot containing the device is empty, at least as it pertains to the Adlib. The data to those addresses has nowhere to go just like on the rest of the bus.

"from the very beginning it..." By "it" I assume you mean the ACE, not the whole Gravis Ultrasound product line, which tried to compete with the Sound Blaster, unsuccessfully.

...

If you remove the OPL2 chip, it should be as though the slot containing the device is empty, at least as it pertains to the Adlib. The data to those addresses has nowhere to go just like on the rest of the bus.

It isn't really clear if the above poster is talking about an address conflict or something else. But...

If the OPL chip is hardcoded to a certain address and can function fully on its own, then removing the chip would remove the entire allocation of that address aswell. Thus no conflict anymore.

If the OPL chip does not allocate the address itself, but some minor chip on the SB board does, then removing it will remove the target of all data to that address, but it will not remove the allocation. Thus the conflict will remain.

In the second case scenario God only knows what a SB board does if it receives data for the OPL chip and it isn't there anymore.

Hehe. I'm more of a scener wannabe, since I'm American. 😒

But thanks for the flattering association. Letsee... your testomy made me remember something. In regards to the Adlib music not working, I think it might actually have been something with the motherboards. That's right... The Soyo actually worked!

Now I remember. I actually got Skyroads and Tubular Worlds to play the adlib music along with a GUS original and SB AWE64 installed, but it took actually changing the motherboard!

So no matter what I did with my other three motherboards (all P2s), I could not get the Adlib music to work with both a GUS and SB properly installed.

I'd like to empasize that EVERYTHING ELSE was exactly the same (and I had tried messing with BIOS options in my P2s). I stuck a bootable DOS hard-drive originally from a P2 into my P4 Soyo ISA and was able to get everything to run with a regular Ultrasound. The other cards were the same (an AWE64 Gold and Roland SCC-1).

Sorry I forgot about this. I actually found a spare ACE card in my stuff this weekend and I was amazed because I thought they were all in use! I had forgotten that the Soyo motherboard seemed happy with an original GUS, all other things equal.

So at this point I'd venture to say that it's something to do with how that memory location is handled. Some BIOSes must designate that memory to the first ISA card that wants to read it, while some must have problems with 2 ISA cards that are trying to read the same locations in memory. That's my guess anyway. If anyone has more insight into how this works, I'd love to have a less fuzzy comprehension of it.

But to answer your question, no... the system is not unstable, and both sound cards work (three in fact, I have a Roland SCC-1 in there too). GUS audio is fine, and the Sound Blaster works also in so far as it will make any kind of audio except what would be generated by 388h memory (the adlib music). Skyroads, for example, will start and the little rocketship can be heard, but the background music will simply not be there.

Even longer explainations available on request. 😊

It isn't really clear if the above poster is talking about an address conflict or something else. But... […]
Show full quote

It isn't really clear if the above poster is talking about an address conflict or something else. But...

If the OPL chip is hardcoded to a certain address and can function fully on its own, then removing the chip would remove the entire allocation of that address as well. Thus no conflict anymore.

If the OPL chip does not allocate the address itself, but some minor chip on the SB board does, then removing it will remove the target of all data to that address, but it will not remove the allocation. Thus the conflict will remain.

In the second case scenario God only knows what a SB board does if it receives data for the OPL chip and it isn't there anymore.

The early Sound Blasters (1.0-16) are made up of separate components: The OPL chip, the C/MS chips, the gameport, the mixer, the DSP, the MPU-401 midi and the CD interface(s). All components act independently (except the mixer) and have separate memory addresses. Removal or disabling of one component will not affect the function of the other components.

Well, while I am curious to know if removing an OPL chip will keep an early sound blaster from accessing the 388-389 area of memory, in practical use that would restrict one to using the GUS for adlib, and that's not something I'd wish on anybody. 😁

To use the GUS for Adlib requires messing with GUS TSRs like SBOS or MegaEm. These are not exactly rock-solid programs, especially when it comes to games, and would be the cause of much cursing I'm sure for anyone stuck having to do this. Even though Adlib though MegaEM sounds... um... interestingly different... it's an excersize in frustration.

So even though you need a TSR to get the GUS to emulate an adlib, the card apparently still looks at 388h all the time! Grrr. Stupid, stupid rat creatures!

The exception being, of course, on the ACE with the jumper disabled 😈 . Or with lucky motherboards, it would seem.

I think the closest I ever got to getting Skyroads to run on the P2 with a AWE64 and original GUS was this... Messing with the .cfg file of CTCM to force the AWE64 to not initialize, and then running MegaEM for the GUS. Skyroads would play 7 notes of the background music before crashing.

Um... meh. Then I got the first ACE and the world was a brighter place.