AlphaWing wrote:

Exactly, its SS7 can't expect everything to work on it.
The caps weren't bad on either. No bulges or leaks, I really think its a defect with its design.
Both were NIB.

I think there's little doubt the chipsets were bugged but also yeah the boards were poorly built too.

swaaye wrote:

Fly over and we can get you one for $3. 😎

Hehe.... Naaa... I just stick to my Matrox G400 32 megabyte AGP card's, until I can get a hold on a GF2-GTS card.
Voodoo3 cards is not worth the flight ticket, priced at (plus) 700 us dollars one way. (Denmark to JFK)

EDIT:
And if I import something from outside EU, were the value is greater than 79 danish kroner's (14.19 usd), then
I have to pay the Danish state between 1 and 20 percent of it's original value.
It all depends on what type of goods/items I buy/import. And I don't know about computer parts.

brostenen wrote:

And if I import something from outside EU, were the value is greater than 79 danish kroner's (14.19 usd), then I have to pay the Danish state between 1 and 20 percent of it's original value.
It all depends on what type of goods/items I buy/import. And I don't know about computer parts.

I am sorry but that's fu@#ed up.

And in Norway we complain about having to pay for goods valued over 200 NOK (32 USD). I guess I have it pretty good. Most games and hardware I buy end up being much cheaper than 200 NOK.

If you're comfortable with modding then I'm thinking it might be possible to resolve the AGP overcurrent issue on these boards. Not wanting to spam or anything, but I posted something about this here that might be pertinent:
Getting some old hardware....

It also looks like the overcurrent issue on the PA-2013 might have been fixed in revision 2.1, if one article on the internet is to be believed.

shamino wrote:

If you're comfortable with modding then I'm thinking it might be possible to resolve the AGP overcurrent issue on these boards. Not wanting to spam or anything, but I posted something about this here that might be pertinent:
Getting some old hardware....

It also looks like the overcurrent issue on the PA-2013 might have been fixed in revision 2.1, if one article on the internet is to be believed.

Uhhhh..... Modding and overclocking!! Such nasty words. 🤣
I'll stick to stock settings because of the lack of old hardware.
I think that I will not be able to get a hold on this stuf anymore.
People are throwing even 5 to 7 year old stuff away these day's.
If I lived in an area like New York or Berlin I would get a hold
on more of this stuff. Sadly my hometown is +/-25.000 people.
And my "condition" makes it hard to make new friends or even
have the gut's to begin asking for stuff in different places.
(Aspergers Syndrome, and it's even a non-typical/mild one)

joacim wrote:

And in Norway we complain about having to pay for goods valued over 200 NOK (32 USD). I guess I have it pretty good. Most games and hardware I buy end up being much cheaper than 200 NOK.

The state should not claim import charges and duty/toll, on old electronics and other stuff, sold by private people.
If it can be pointed out and backed up, that a private person have sold this second hand.
For me, it's not right that something was bought in 1995 or 2001, and I am the one who have to pay today's
toll/duty/import-charges. It's not right at all. It's 100% okay, if it was a Playstation4, a horse or something like
that. Not on old used item's that can not be used for other means than a hobby.

🤣
nobody here mentioned how bad the K6 FPU is? That's why games are slow with it.... they only excel at integer processing
that's why PIIs were much better but much more expensive

TheMAN wrote:

🤣
nobody here mentioned how bad the K6 FPU is? That's why games are slow with it.... they only excel at integer processing
that's why PIIs were much better but much more expensive

That and 3DNow was mostly ignored by game companies. And the memory performance of the K6 chips without on-die L2 cache is really bad.

I think we all know that Intel lead the way most of the time so we don't point it out every time someone wants to build something with AMD or Cyrix.

Well.... Did some testing, reinstalling and stuff all day long (16 hour's straight) and I have some results.
First up. I can do unreal tournament, in 800x600 32 bit resolution on a 32 megabyte TNT2-M64 and K6-3.
Just not in Direct3D. I have to set UT99 to Open GL. And second of all... I have to use an ISA sound card.
I have my old SB16 PNP from creative installed.

What the FIC PA-2013 can NOT do, is running with ANY of the following GFX cards:

1: Matrox G400 32 megabyte.
2: Nvidia Gf 6200 128 megabyte from leadtek.
3: Winfast TNT2 M64 and Vanta cards (S320V, S325 and one without model number)

Back to the sound card...
I have really unstable system, using a SB-Live card, just not when using ISA cards from Creative and Gravis.
Why, I don't know. Have a fealing that it might have something to do with PCI being too fast for GFX.
Well. On my board it is.

Windows95 will not work propperly, and Win98SE will only work when my Asus V3800 (the TNT2-M64) is installed.
And if I try to run with the Matrox and 6200, then it only count's half of the memmory and it will not turn off propperly.

So...
Fic PA-2013 is a really picky board, when it comes to hardware. And because I do not have any GF2 card, then I can not
say if the board will run without any error using that card. Ohh.... Have to get the old GF2 from my parent's then.

Yet...
WHEN everything is the right hardware. Then I can positively say, that a K6-3 will run UT99 at 800 by 600 in 32 bit. 😜

I swear by Aureal Vortex 2 cards for early Windows stuff. A lot of these games have A3D support and sound mint! Especially in headphone mode.

When you say "it can't run any of these cards", is this because they do not work at all or some other issue?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I swear by Aureal Vortex 2 cards for early Windows stuff. A lot of these games have A3D support and sound mint! Especially in headphone mode.

When you say "it can't run any of these cards", is this because they do not work at all or some other issue?

Unstable motherboard, only count's to 64 out of 128 megabyte system memmory, and power button will not work at all.
Those are the issues with perfectly good cards installed in my motherboard.
And only Win98se will work, besides no issues in DOS whatsoever on this board.

If I take AlphaWing's unluck with this board in account, then the PA-2013 must be a really picky board when it comes to Windows.
And AGP card's too....

I see...

To be honest I don't have much experience with W95 / 98 on SS7 platforms. I usually go with a Slot 1 system. Well I do have experience but not extended usage experience which is what really counts. Not just a quick benchmark and assume everything is good.

Could it be, that the Matrox and the GF-6200 is having a tough time switching between volt's?
And that might be why they behave in a way, that the board may appear crippled!

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I see...

To be honest I don't have much experience with W95 / 98 on SS7 platforms. I usually go with a Slot 1 system. Well I do have experience but not extended usage experience which is what really counts. Not just a quick benchmark and assume everything is good.

Win95 stopped in the first boot-process, after being installed, and reported something about IOS (can not remember it correct now)
And when the Matrox and GF was in use, under Win98, it reported back that the system was locked or something.

brostenen wrote:

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

brostenen wrote:

Yet, the more I read, the more I realise that nVidia is a way better choice.

Woa, easy there 😀 Don't want to start a riot here 🤣

Yeah.... Looting and burning down the town hall.... 🤣
Just at the price-tag, nVidia gives more. When we are speaking of old GFX-Cards.

Not to mention that when flashing their BIOSes you don't need to worry about the RAM chip type unlike ATI.

ATI make their BIOSes such way that you need to exactly get the BIOS for the RAM type you have (Samsung or Hynix for example).

This doesn't apply to nVidia cards,where you can flash another card's BIOS (e.g Palit Daytona FX5200 can be reflashed with Winfast A340TDH firmware (or even ASUS v9250-X/TD,as long as you set the frequencies to the Palit card using NiBiTor (250/180)) without having to worry about the RAM manufacturer. (e.g my Palit Daytona has Elixir but A340TDH uses something else)

Did you install the VIA 4in1 drivers? Very important with boards using VIA chipsets, especially when using AGP cards.

What nVidia driver version are you using? Hopefully not the latest which supports TNT2, the earlier ones should be faster, especially with "slower" CPUs. I'd suggest a detonator driver version < 10. Some version numbers I remember (don't know if those are correct) are 2.08, 3.68 and 5.12.

The TNT2-M64 is running with the same clocks as a TNT2, but only has a 64bit memory interface so it only has half the memory bandwidth. The speed difference should be most pronounced when using 32-bit rendering.
There are conflicting statements about the Vanta (being based on TNT or TNT2, but since those are of a very similar speed when running at the same clock that shouldn't be important). It has a 64bit memory interface like the TNT2-M64 but lower clock speeds for both the chip and the memory.
I don't know if you are limited more by the CPU or the video card at 800x600 32bit, but you can certainly find out by trying to change the resolution. I suggest avoiding 32bit rendering.
If you want to have a faster card but not 3dfx I'd suggest a Geforce2 MX, anything faster is probably not necessary, and hardware TnL should help for games using OpenGL or DirectX >= 7. If you are worried you could try to get a PCI version, but those are not as common.

Are you using the latest patch for UT? I know that with Unreal both Direct3D and OpenGL support became better with later versions.
The best idea would probaly to play it on a more modern box with either a Glide wrapper or a modern renderer.

RTCW has as a minimum requirement a PII 400 which your K6-3 does not reach.

It is (or was?) a well known fact that there were compatibility problems using an SBLive on a VIA mainboard. There was some patch or PCI latency setting but it still wasn't perfect, although you could try. Using an ISA card is a valid workaround, but a PCI sound card with a different chip (not Creative) should also help.

idspispopd wrote:

Did you install the VIA 4in1 drivers? Very important with boards using VIA chipsets, especially when using AGP cards. […]
Show full quote

Did you install the VIA 4in1 drivers? Very important with boards using VIA chipsets, especially when using AGP cards.

What nVidia driver version are you using? Hopefully not the latest which supports TNT2, the earlier ones should be faster, especially with "slower" CPUs. I'd suggest a detonator driver version < 10. Some version numbers I remember (don't know if those are correct) are 2.08, 3.68 and 5.12.

The TNT2-M64 is running with the same clocks as a TNT2, but only has a 64bit memory interface so it only has half the memory bandwidth. The speed difference should be most pronounced when using 32-bit rendering.
There are conflicting statements about the Vanta (being based on TNT or TNT2, but since those are of a very similar speed when running at the same clock that shouldn't be important). It has a 64bit memory interface like the TNT2-M64 but lower clock speeds for both the chip and the memory.
I don't know if you are limited more by the CPU or the video card at 800x600 32bit, but you can certainly find out by trying to change the resolution. I suggest avoiding 32bit rendering.
If you want to have a faster card but not 3dfx I'd suggest a Geforce2 MX, anything faster is probably not necessary, and hardware TnL should help for games using OpenGL or DirectX >= 7. If you are worried you could try to get a PCI version, but those are not as common.

Are you using the latest patch for UT? I know that with Unreal both Direct3D and OpenGL support became better with later versions.
The best idea would probaly to play it on a more modern box with either a Glide wrapper or a modern renderer.

RTCW has as a minimum requirement a PII 400 which your K6-3 does not reach.

It is (or was?) a well known fact that there were compatibility problems using an SBLive on a VIA mainboard. There was some patch or PCI latency setting but it still wasn't perfect, although you could try. Using an ISA card is a valid workaround, but a PCI sound card with a different chip (not Creative) should also help.

Looking at these old reviews, makes me think that the K6-3 is more like in the league of somewhat between P2 and P3.
And that is not bad at all. 😀

http://www.anandtech.com/show/207
http://www.anandtech.com/show/211/4

I did install the correct chipset drivers, and so, the only obvious sollution to cramp more out of the current system.
Is to install a different nvidia driver, or install a gForce2 card. Possibly a gForce3 if the system can handle it.
I know were to get a free gForce 2 card. Just that it may take me a while.
Yet again, my parents come to the "rescue". As they do not throw old computers away. They just buy new stuff when
the old is way too slow for them.... (old people are good for the retro community i guess 🤣 )

I will try to install Win98 again, and see if the detornator drivers will work, and then test my way through DX versions.
It must be possible to cramp more out of this highly AGP-incompatible board. (thinking and scratching the back of my head).

The thing about soundcards in my collection is, that I only have this GUS-ACE and then a Aztech card, the rest are Creative one's
None of thise are SB16 compatible. Only SB-Pro or even worse SB2.0 compatible.
Yes, I know my GUS-ACE is in this K6-3 system. Just that the system is such a great DOS-Machine, and I need to have some
way of sound when loading my XMS configuration. As the SB-Live need to have EMS.
It is a bit contradictory when I say that old pre-SB16 is not pro post P1 systems. Yet, it is the best card I have for XMS.
If I had a pci-card that could do SB16 in dos, with better sound quality and using XMS only, I would swap the GUS-ACE with it.
Those old standards do make a good run, if they were for an 486 DX2 build.
Just not in a so highly potent system as the K6-3 or a P2.
That is just (for me) some major overkill for those old sound standard's. After P1, it should be SB16 or similair. 😉

EDIT
Missed the thing about issues between VIA chipsets and SB-Live.... Hmmm.... Must get a Creative PCI-128 card then.
Just to check up, if the machine can handle that card better. (getting more and more hardware on the wish-list)

Posted this in your other topic but just to be sure you read it:

That board revision can not handle more than 8,25watt for an agp card!!! So eventually any voodoo3, geforce1, geforce2 (the mx is fine), geforce3 and maybe even your tnt2 will fail the board.

Older boards have a linear 2,5a voltage regulator for the agp. 2,5a x 3,3v = 8,25watts MAX. ,<- pushing this number will make it unstable or blow up....
Later boards have 6A switching regulators and can provide up to 19,2Watts for the agp slot.

There are other brands that have these problems as the boards were designed when graphics cards didn`t need a lot of power and used around 4watts.

So, be careful when using agp cards or go pci, they work fine.

Nvidia never revealed power usage for the TNT2 so it is a gamble.