There are plenty of other Apple II emulators... any particular reason you're wanting to use Apple2PC specifically?

Mainly because it has all the features I want/need (I also have Oasis, Apple2Win, etc, etc). Odd thing is I just found out about SoundFX and tried the time limited demo, which works with Apple2PC. Now why doesn't VDMSound? What is SoundFX doing that VDMSound doesn't (or better yet, how have I misconfigured VDMSound to not be able to do what SoundFX does? *grin*)

Have you tried disabling EMS? Also any errors/warnings in the log?

EEE wrote:

Has anyone here gotten it working for Apple2PC? If so, can you give me any and all settings?

Just to make things clear, are you talking about ApplePC v2.52? There is an emulator known as "Apple2PC" but AFAIK it's for Linux only.

Anyway, if we are talking about ApplePC, I've just managed to get it working with the default settings for VDMSound, using the launchpad. Inside ApplePC, I emulated an Apple //e, set sound mode to SoundBlaster, loaded Ultima IV and activated the music. Everything worked just fine.

The major difference between my specs and yours is the fact that I'm running Windows 2000 instead of XP, but this should not be a problem. By the way, are you sure you've got Update 1 fos VDMS? Can you test another DOS program to make sure that VDMS is running ok in your machine?

Regards,

MajorGrubert wrote:

Just to make things clear, are you talking about ApplePC v2.52? There is an emulator known as "Apple2PC" but AFAIK it's for Linux only.

*ACK* I do mean ApplePC 2.52 (considering that I have every version that ever came out for it, and corresponded heavily with the author many years ago about it, you'd think I'd get the name right by now! *grin*) (BTW, I have tried earlier versions under VDMSound)

MajorGrubert wrote:

Anyway, if we are talking about ApplePC, I've just managed to get it working with the default settings for VDMSound, using the launchpad. Inside ApplePC, I emulated an Apple //e, set sound mode to SoundBlaster, loaded Ultima IV and activated the music. Everything worked just fine.

*grumble* That shouldn't work (nor did it here *grin?*), as when I tried SoundFX it defaulted to IRQ 5, which rang a bell memory-wise for me. When Ellsworth first added SB support, I remember him mentioning that IRQ to me, and me not being happy about the lack of ability to change it to match my system at that time. Be that as it may, I've tried both 7 & 5 (remembering to change the environment variable and the ini & the bat file).

MajorGrubert wrote:

The major difference between my specs and yours is the fact that I'm running Windows 2000 instead of XP, but this should not be a problem. By the way, are you sure you've got Update 1 fos VDMS? Can you test another DOS program to make sure that VDMS is running ok in your machine?

I have tried it "straight," and then with sp1, and then with the additional upgrade files as mentioned in the other forum here. I just got home from work and will see if I can come up with something to test it with later tonight (although, that shouldn't make a difference as it worked fine with SoundFX?). I'm also going to play with the EMS as mentioned by Vlad above.

I'll report back later... Thanks for the assistance guys!!! (even if it doesn't end up fixing it for me, I thank you for taking the time)

Note: I've been around computers too long to rely on any of my "that shouldn't work's" above *grin*)

IRQ 5 is Windows XP's built-in Sound Blaster support (This is why VDMSound uses 7). If the program can't go to 7, it may not work correctly. SoundFX may force over-ride XP's emulation so it can use 5 itself, dunno how well VDMSound can do that, though.

Still no go, however logging shows this line of interest (repeated MANY times in the log)

@E - 00:11:36.010 - SBController
Attempted to use unimplemented DSP command 0x10 (Direct DAC)

Originally posted by EEE The compatibilty guide says it works easily for one user, and not for another (however his seems to indicate inherent XP support).

That was me for both reports. The native emulation in XP didn't work at all.
Using it with VDMSound worked fine.

Mainly because it has all the features I want/need (I also have Oasis, Apple2Win, etc, etc).

Can we presume that you know about the attempt to implement "true" Mockingboard emulation in "AppleWin"?
http://pages.ripco.net/~wizwom/applewin/index1.html

Odd thing is I just found out about SoundFX and tried the time limited demo, which works with Apple2PC. Now why doesn't VDMSound?

Well, as I understand it, SoundFX is more of a "wrapper" that is "cheating" (IOW, allowing software to directly access the hardware without using the OS).

What is SoundFX doing that VDMSound doesn't...

My guess is that you already have another piece of software that doing the very same thing (allowing direct hardware access). That will hose VDMSound every time.

Try searching your system for "GIVEIO.SYS", or "TOTALIO.SYS" files, and for any file that might have the string "Ke386" within it.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Can we presume that you know about the attempt to implement "true" Mockingboard emulation in "AppleWin"?

Yes you can... I have 1.10, 1.11a/b, & 1.18F. However AppleWin doesn't have a save state option, or a "turbo toggle" (so to speak).

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Try searching your system for "GIVEIO.SYS", or "TOTALIO.SYS" files, and for any file that might have the string "Ke386" within it.

Nada comes up in the search (and it took a looooong while looking for the text string in every file I have *grin*)

Originally posted by EEE Nada comes up in the search (and it took a looooong while looking for the text string in every file I have

Well you only needed to search files that are either part of your OS or applications that you run frequently. No point in searching a partition that just being used for storage. In any case, obviously, something is still wrong.

Try downloading the "Champ Ms.Pac-Em" from this thread:
showthread.php?threadid=1132
...(formerly shareware, now freeware).

It auto-configures itself, so it should run without any special setup after installation (it has DOS and Windows installers).

Try it with VDMSound and try it it using XP's native SB emulation (just run the game, it's built into the OS).

AdLib music might fail using native emulation (it does on mine, but digital audio still works). If your OS is working properly, you should hear digital sound effects either way.

EEE wrote:

Still no go, however logging shows this line of interest (repeated MANY times in the log)

@E - 00:11:36.010 - SBController
Attempted to use unimplemented DSP command 0x10 (Direct DAC)

Yep, that explains it then. SoundFX will, indeed, work. I did not bother to implement direct-DAC because sound quality is evry poor (even with SoundFX), though since I took that decision computer speeds have come a long way and I put out SPEEDSET, so maybe it's time I finally implemented it? Hmmm, anyway, DosBox should aslo work in the meantime.
V.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Try downloading the "Champ Ms.Pac-Em" from this thread:

Try it with VDMSound and try it it using XP's native SB emulation (just run the game, it's built into the OS).

That works both ways (although it does sound better in VDMSound *grin*). So from this and the above, can I gather that the problem lay in ApplePC's requirement for IRQ 5, which VDMSound can't do? (in spite of it being an option?)

Originally posted by EEE That works both ways (although it does sound better in VDMSound

Good. At least we know the problem is not at the OS level.

So from this and the above, can I gather that the problem lay in ApplePC's requirement for IRQ 5,...

No, I don't think so. I have XP and I can run ApplePC with VDMSound just fine (though admittedly I tend to have tinker with Apple PC's emulation to get the proper speed (default seems to flip-flop between blazingly fast and horribly slow.

Have you updated the program?
showthread.php?threadid=1226

Also, are you using the GUI Launchpad? Despite what you said about this program requiring IRQ 5, I'm using URQ 7.

... which VDMSound can't do? (in spite of it being an option?)

The problem is not with VDMSound. It's XP.

In NT4 and Win2000, there is no existing SB emulation in the OS. In XP, you have the rough equivalent of a SoundBlaster v1.5. If you try to use IRQ 5 with VDMSound with IRQ 5, DOS programs will see the equivalent of two soundcards using the same IRQ. That tends to make DOS programs "freak out" (Pardon my lack of technical vocabulary. I'm losing consciousness rapidly).

So you would either have to disable XP's emulation (and I have no clue how to do that at the moment) or just avoid IRQ5 when using VDMSound.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

(though admittedly I tend to have tinker with Apple PC's emulation to get the proper speed (default seems to flip-flop between blazingly fast and horribly slow.

F7 will toggle between a delay of zero and whatever your have entered into menu option W. (one of the features that keeps me with this program)

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Have you updated the program?
showthread.php?threadid=1226

Oh yeah... and every interim step in between.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Also, are you using the GUI Launchpad?

If you mean the run with VDMSound, yes. I'm also alternating with using the PIF

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Despite what you said about this program requiring IRQ 5, I'm using URQ 7.

Well boil me in oil... I just tried SoundFX set for IRQ 7 and it worked. SoundFX works with both IRQ 5 and 7, and yet VDMSound won't work with either (for ApplePC)

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

In NT4 and Win2000, there is no existing SB emulation in the OS. In XP, you have the rough equivalent of a SoundBlaster v1.5. If you try to use IRQ 5 with VDMSound with IRQ 5, DOS programs will see the equivalent of two soundcards using the same IRQ. That tends to make DOS programs "freak out" (Pardon my lack of technical vocabulary. I'm losing consciousness rapidly).

I understand "freak out" in and out of computerese. *grin* Actually, I just went to XP (mainly because of a whim while upgrading my machine). I had held off until now because I was told there was zero dos support in XP (and I need dos support for some other programs I still run) and just happened to see a dos prompt under XP in a computer store. So your info on XP-DOS is mucho helpful.

And I'm still without sound in ApplePC (which is the only program I want DOS sound in *grin*)(I refuse to play Pacman forever *grin*)

EEE wrote:

Still no go, however logging shows this line of interest (repeated MANY times in the log)

@E - 00:11:36.010 - SBController
Attempted to use unimplemented DSP command 0x10 (Direct DAC)

Actually, the same happens here, although I can hear the music playing in Ultima IV. Problably the emulator is trying to access the sound card in different ways, depending on what the program wants to do.

vladr wrote:

Yep, that explains it then. SoundFX will, indeed, work. I did not bother to implement direct-DAC because sound quality is evry poor (even with SoundFX), though since I took that decision computer speeds have come a long way and I put out SPEEDSET, so maybe it's time I finally implemented it? Hmmm, anyway, DosBox should aslo work in the meantime.

So I guess there is little else we can do but wait to see if Vlad will implement Direct DAC sometime in the future. I have just tried DosBox 0.58, but it is *very* slow in my Athlon XP 1800+, something like 25 to 50% of the speed of an actual Apple //e when I ran Ultima IV. After all, it's an emulator inside an emulator and this is too much for the CPU.

Regards,

Ultima IV for PC or Apple ][?

The sound patches for Ultimas 3-6 work fine in XP with VDMSound.

Heck U7Run and U8Run both run with sound in XP (with some tweaking, and turning speach off) as well as the patches (Not talking about remakes) for the Underworld Series.

psz wrote:

Ultima IV for PC or Apple ][?

For the Apple ][, actually, running it with ApplePC and using VMDS to provide SoundBlaster emulation for ApplePC. A little bit confusing, but the point here is to verify that Apple PC works under VDMS.
Otherwise, I know that Ultima IV for the PC with the sound patch runs fine under VDMS.

Thanks,

Originally posted by EEE F7 will toggle between a delay of zero and whatever your have entered into menu option W.

Haven't had much chance to get familiar with it, much for the same reason I haven't had a chance to actually enjoy too many games. Too busy testing...

Oh yeah... and every interim step in between.

Ok, that's probably overkill, but it's a good thing.

If you mean the run with VDMSound, yes. I'm also alternating with using the PIF

IOW, you have both "Run with VDMS" entries when you right click on a DOS EXE file (both with and without the musical note)? And when you run it with the musical note, it steps you through a wizard and creates a VLP file?

Well boil me in oil... I just tried SoundFX set for IRQ 7 and it worked. SoundFX works with both IRQ 5 and 7, and yet VDMSound won't work with either (for ApplePC)

EEE, you are killing me. That makes a whole lot of no sense. I mean I even ran it in XP on "Virtual PC" and it worked precisely the same way as it does on my real PC.

I understand "freak out" in and out of computerese. *grin*

Well, definitions on that one seem to vary...hopefully never involving "magic blue smoke".

Actually, I just went to XP

Tell me you let it set up a dual-boot. Please. So easy to do when installing, such a pain to do afterwards.

I had held off until now because I was told there was zero dos support in XP (and I need dos support for some other programs I still run) and just happened to see a dos prompt under XP in a computer store. So your info on XP-DOS is mucho helpful.

Actually, it's beyond that. There is no DOS in XP...at all. What you have is a command prompt with limited DOS emulation capacity, the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS Machine"). If your DOS title needs anything it doesn't emulate...

And I'm still without sound in ApplePC (which is the only program I want DOS sound in...

Well I'm personally hoping the AppleWin emulation can step forward with "real", usable mockingboard emulation soon.

Originally posted by MajorGrubert Actually, the same happens here, although I can hear the music playing in Ultima IV.

I get the same DAC error, but the audio still plays fine.

So I guess there is little else we can do but wait to see if Vlad will implement Direct DAC sometime in the future. I have just tried DosBox 0.58, but it is *very* slow in my Athlon XP 1800+, something like 25 to 50% of the speed of an actual Apple //e when I ran Ultima IV.

I don't know. I was able to run Ultima III fairly well by setting CPU to 9283 cycles and Frame Skip to 2.

Oddly enough I lose audio if I disable the SoundBlaster portion of VDMSound (supposed to only need the AdLib portion...).

EEE wrote:

Well boil me in oil... I just tried SoundFX set for IRQ 7 and it worked. SoundFX works with both IRQ 5 and 7, and yet VDMSound won't work with either (for ApplePC)

Just for the record, what Apple II programs are you running inside ApplePC?